The Fool: Origins, Silliness, and Maybe Some Wisdom

[ayellowbirds.livejournal.com]

cross-posted to my journal

I've commented rather absently before to friends that i tend not to be interested in religions that take themselves too seriously. Although i wasn't raised in a religious family, i feel that i still grew up in a Jewish tradition of questioning and interpreting what has been handed down as is appropriate to the environment, similar to the Islamic concept of itjihad (i'm sure there's a jewish term for this, maybe someone else knows?). The first two "religions" i actually found appealing were Chaos Magick and Discordianism. The former has proven either very influential or perhaps very in tune with what i naturally believe, particularly as relates to the reality of spirits, deities, and belief; the latter has mainly contributed a love of chaos in the constructive/generative aspect, an air of half-seriousness and self-mockery about my own beliefs, and a love of Eris (although sometimes i suspect that my view of Her is too different from that of other Discordians. I may have to excommunicate the lot of them).

From these origins comes a question: whence do you believe deities/spirits originate? Is there a single origin, various ones, or even multiple seemingly contradictory sources? Do new deities/spirits come into existence as new concepts arise, or do the older ones adopt those into their sphere of influence?

In my experience, i've found that there are generally three ways this occurs:
-One is the adoption of "new" notions by a deity/spirit whose ascribed areas of influence include related concepts. I count Hephaistos as theos of (beside his traditional associations) such things as automated machinery and robotics.
-Another is a "revelation" of a deity or spirit that may or may not have existed previously. Such an entity revealed itself to me as a muse/governing spirit of modern music, something which deities known in older times were seemingly less inclined towards.
-Yet another is the creation of deities/spirits through the efforts of others. As far as i am concerned, Santa Claus is a legitimate spiritual being, but also one primarily created by humans. He is attributed magical powers (flight, omniscience), receives sacrifices (cookies) and prayer (letters), and even grants boons (presents) to those who follow his dogma (be good).



I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on any of this, positive, negative, or even random unrelated things this reminds you of.

Comments

[valkyriur.livejournal.com]

Well, I believe that all deities are actually one. I believe that God* appears in a way that will be acceptable to each person. (*I use the word God because that is the word I use for this one Deity)

My mated believes that each deity still exists, but with new ideals a new deity is created. For example:
1. Anubis existed in the Eygyption religion as a God, so he existed. The amount of people that beleived in him gave him the power that he had.
2. Egyptian religion died out, so Anubis became weaker, but still exists somewhere.
3. Egyptian religion is brought back and people believe in it; however, since they do not believe all of the things that the traditional Egyptian religion taught, a new Anubis is made.

-deleted previous post to edit for clarity-

[moonvoice.livejournal.com]

That sounds a lot like the theory put forward in Gaiman's American Gods

[ayellowbirds.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that and Pratchett's Small Gods were brought up in the comments on my journal. I dunno, something about the idea of a deity or spirit "dying" because of a lack of belief rubs me the wrong way. However, it's not my place to impose that on others.

[moonvoice.livejournal.com]

From these origins comes a question: whence do you believe deities/spirits originate? Is there a single origin, various ones, or even multiple seemingly contradictory sources?

Most of my deities originated in natural occurences and therefore don't need me to support their existence, nor do they need any human. 'Rain' is just 'rain', it might be personified by some of us, but just as often when I'm worshipping rain I'm not imagining a god or a goddess, I'm worshipping rain. Therefore unless the rain itself is evolving (which I guess it will always do depending on country) it won't change, it originated externally to animals, and it helps to keep us alive. The same goes for almost all the deities I worship with a small handful of exceptions.

I do think new deities can develop, but I also think we as humans are quick to personify them. For example, giving the 'muse' of modern music a name, a gender, a personality, an appearance etc. and then finally being able to pick what offerings they may want. When in fact any 'deity' of modern music may just be a formless coalition of energy, it may just be the music we listen to and nothing more.

[ayellowbirds.livejournal.com]

Certainly, that's the way i feel about many of them... although, i suspect that it is just as often that spirits take a human form because of our limitations in relating to others. The majority of people have an easier time feeling like they can understand something that has a humanoid, or at least animal form. I've long suspected that part of the reason some religions found more followers was a matter of how abstracted or distant the principle entity/entities were from a human form.

For that muse i mentioned, it's a matter of what was told to me, not what i came up with. I don't apply a gender or personality because i wasn't given one, i consider it to have a name and appearance only as far as was revealed. There are a few deities i think of in animal form first, although they aren't ones i've had dealings with as of yet; the road, thunderstorm, moon, sun, earth, mars, phobos and deimos: i only personify them for poetic purposes. Maybe it has to do with how vast some of these are.

Eh, it's past my bedtime. Maybe i'll make sense in the morning

[valkyriur.livejournal.com]

I've never heard of it. I might look into it. My mated might be interested to know about it, as well.